Chat with Freek van Litsenburg

Hey guys, this is your 173rd Heuton Letter. I’ve recently had a chance to talk to Freek van Litsenburg, an influcencer in Instagram famous for his work in @wethinkdeeply.

Freek creates thought-provoking video content, asking questions that help people deeply reflect on themselves. He's one of the few people creating “actually valuable” content on Instagram. (And he’s exceptionally good at it!)

As someone who shares a similar mission, I’ve always wanted to connect with him. I reached out to him for a brief interview about his journey and his work, and he graciously agreed.

In the talk, we talked about:
1. How Freek started We Think Deeply
2. Lessons learned in his journey
3. Challenges Freek faced along the way
4. You’re never busy; it’s just a matter of prioritization.
5. The mentality in walking a different path from others
6. Book or person that inspired Freek
7. What makes a "good question”?

Please enjoy!

Youngjoon(👨🏻‍💻) : Hey Freek, thank you so much for being here!

Freek(👱🏻‍♂️) : Hi! Thanks for having me.

👨🏻‍💻: So let me first briefly introduce myself and the work I’m doing. Heuton is an AI app that provides each user with highly personalized questions, ones that help them deeply think about themselves.

The questions get deeper and more personalized as the user answers questions everyday. The ultimate goal of Heuton is to help people get to know themselves better.

In Korea, where I live, one of the downsides of this country is that it has a very competitive and materialistic nature. That makes people anxious and have FOMO(Fear of missing out).

And I think one of the main reasons of having excessive anxiety is because people don’t fully know who they really are. What’s really important to them, what values they hold dear, and so on. That’s how I started.

👱🏻‍♂️ : Yeah, cool. I really like that mission because it's similar to what I'm working on, or at least I hope it is. So, that's great to hear.

👨🏻‍💻 : Thanks. So I’ve already sent you some questions for today. Let’s cover them one by one. The first question is: Tell me a bit about yourself and the work you’re doing!

👱🏻‍♂️ : Cool. So I'm Freek from the Netherlands. Regarding my personal journey, I've always been entrepreneurial. I did a bachelor's degree in business and a master's in strategic consultancy.

And as you know, currently, I’m running an Instagram page called “We Think Deeply.”

Basically what I'm really trying to do, especially on social media, is to make people stop scrolling and think consciously.

If I can reach even five seconds of someone's attention to make them think about why they're doing what they're doing, that's my goal. I believe it's important to sit down every now and then to reflect.

In today's world with constant distractions from social media, it's important to ask ourselves why we're doing what we're doing.

That's what I'm trying to achieve by making people more aware through questions and exercises.

👨🏻‍💻 : When did you first realize the necessity of “thinking deeply”?

1. How Freek started "We Think Deeply"

👱🏻‍♂️ : At 19, I had a tumor on my jaw(👨🏻‍💻: ?!), which wasn't anything serious, but it was scary enough to make me reflect deeply on my life choices.

That's when I started to think more deeply about things, leading me to this mission.

👨🏻‍💻 : Thank God it wasn’t very serious.

👱🏻‍♂️ : Yeah. But it made me have a lot of regrets and start to think more deeply about my life, which is the starting point of why I began all of this.

👨🏻‍💻 : That's very impressive. We have different cultural backgrounds—Korea is very competitive and materialistic, so not many people have time to deeply think about themselves. I’m curious, how is it like in the Netherlands?

👱🏻‍♂️ : In the Netherlands, there's a divide between those who are always striving for more, and a growing minimalistic counter-trend where people focus more on free time and less on material possessions. It's a small but growing group.

👨🏻‍💻 : I can relate to that. In Korea, many people are so caught up in competition and getting promotion, getting rich and stuff, that they don’t have any time to reflect. And of course social media, not to mention.

However, there definitely is a growing trend of people wanting to take time to think about themselves and ask questions like “Wait, why am I doing all this? What for? What is it that I truly want? How do I live more authentically?”

👱🏻‍♂️ : Yeah, it's similar in the Netherlands.

👨🏻‍💻 : Cool. Let’s talk more about your work on Instagram. How long have you been doing this?

👱🏻‍♂️ : I started earlier this year when I moved to Spain. With a part-time job and no friends initially, I had a lot of time. I made a list of things I wanted to try, starting with playing music on my laptop, then writing a journal.

I launched the Instagram page, in February. Some videos went viral, and it's been growing beyond my imagination. I'm very happy with the progress.

👨🏻‍💻 : Awesome. I thought it's been over a year because the quality and the progress you've made is so great. I mean, who can achieve this in less than a year?

I'm sure you've learned a lot along this journey. What lessons do you have?

2. Lessons learned in his journey

👱🏻‍♂️ : There are so many lessons. Creating content has helped me internalize what I learn from various sources.

I try to bring questions from sources like podcasts, books, or even my own experiences, and in the process of producing each content, I going through those over and over. And that helps me internalize.

I've also learned a lot about business, growing an audience, and writing newsletters. Launching the new program has taught me even more. Overall, it's been a continuous learning process.

👨🏻‍💻 : You're making content to help others, but you're the biggest beneficiary. That sounds great.

👱🏻‍♂️ : Exactly.

👨🏻‍💻 : I feel the same when I write Heuton Letter. Our users(readers) always tell me that they are grateful for the inspiring content (which is very humbling), but I’m the one who learns and benefits the most in the process.

So you're having a very unique and intense experience, and I’m sure you’ve had some difficulties. What challenges have you faced so far?

3. Challenges Freek faced along the way

👱🏻‍♂️ : Many difficulties, but I tackled the biggest one beforehand by establishing a system for consistent content creation.

I think the question that a lot of creators or creative people on social media have is to come up with new ideas right and to be consistent.

So if you look at my page from the 11th of February till today, there's not a single time where I completely stopped. It’s been always been going like at least 6 videos a week.

And the way I did it was because the previous time that I tried.

So I first started making video when I was 18 years old, on TikTok. That time I completely messed up. I posted three videos each day(👨🏻‍💻: wow).

I don't know what I was thinking but I eventually did it for 90 days. That was my challenge: 90 days, 3 videos a day and then let's see where we're at. And it kind of worked. It went from zero to 19,000 ~ 20,000 followers.

So I thought, oh, that's good.

But then after 90 days the challenge was finished, for months I posted nothing, not a single video because I just came to hate Facebook, I hated videos, and I couldn't do it anymore.

I think (I don't like to use the term burnout) I think I just made it so extreme that I needed months of nothing to find a balance.

And I realized that what I missed was the system to help me with consistency without burning out.

So I tackled that before I started We Think Deeply by having a system in place before I started.

👨🏻‍💻 : That’s a great story. You learn from your past mistakes. Any other challenges?

👱🏻‍♂️ : You know, the engagement can go up and down. So one week you'll have millions of people watching your videos, and then the next week like no one is watching. And then all of a sudden your newsletter gets a 100 new people, and then three weeks afterwards no one joins (or even some people unsubscribe).

So it's like constantly trying to do better but sometimes not getting rewarded immediately.

👨🏻‍💻 : I couldn’t agree more. That is why controlling your mentality is crucial.

👱🏻‍♂️ : Yes, and another thing. On the 27th of December, I'm launching a new product, a 30-day workshop program for getting to know yourself better.

And even though I believe the program will be great (I’m making sure it will be), my brain sometimes goes like “what if no one buys it?” and sometimes “what if it's sold out within one minute?”

So sometimes it can be quite challenging for your brain to handle mentality.

👨🏻‍💻 : Cool. Do you know the Stoics? It’s a branch of philosophy that I’m very much into, and the emphasize separating what you can control, from what you cannot.

I relate to your story because I try to maintain that separation in my mind.

👱🏻‍♂️ : That helps a lot. Thanks for sharing.

4. You're never busy; it's just a matter of prioritization

👨🏻‍💻 : So there’s a challenge I face every day: I think many people do understand the importance of thinking deeply, but are too busy to act on it. Have you tried making people engage in deep thinking?

👱🏻‍♂️ : I think it’s a matter of prioritization. If someone says they're too busy, it often means it's low on their priority list.

For Heuton, I think the challenge is to make the practice small and manageable, like 10 minutes a day for a few days, to encourage them to prioritize it higher.

👨🏻‍💻 : That's true. When people say they're busy, it’s actually just not prioritized.

How about your achievements? Can you share a couple of fulfilling moments you’ve had?

5. The mentality in walking a different path from others

👱🏻‍♂️ : Well personally, choosing a different path than what I was expected is considered as an achievement for me.

Like everyone, I was also expected to go work in a big company with a good paycheck, but then I chose to do something completely different.

And I'm now with the growth of the social media page and everything that I'm doing I can see that it's working.

I still think I would earn more money in working in a big company right now, but I can see that I'm like having a good start.

👨🏻‍💻 : I can relate to that a lot because I studied engineering in college, and so many of my friends went to big companies Samsung or any other large companies. And I'm living a very different life compared to theirs.

I think choosing a path that is different from the majority has both good sides and bad sides. The good side is that I'm living much more authentic life and I love what I'm doing.

As for the bad side… well, it’s the path I chose. No one forced me. So I can’t really complain about it.

👱🏻‍♂️ : That's a great. I really like that attitude.

👨🏻‍💻 : Thanks. But doesn't it scare you to walk a different path from others?

👱🏻‍♂️ : Of course, I would be lying if it doesn't, but then at the same time, I also think “what's the worst that can happen?”

Even if I would try this for a few years and it completely fails, I’ll still be able to get a job. So yeah, I think it's something you and me will always struggle with but it's part of it and I choose for it.

👨🏻‍💻 : That's very impressive and inspiring. Can’t complain for what you chose!

Now next question: who do you think specifically needs the practice of thinking deeply about themselves?

👱🏻‍♂️ : It's important for my (our) generation, facing many choices and opportunities.

But I think it's also beneficial for older generations, like my parents, who might not have had the chance to reflect deeply. Convincing them can be challenging, but I think it’ll be powerful and effective for them, too.

6. Books or person that inspired Freek

👨🏻‍💻 : Are there any books or people that influenced you?

👱🏻‍♂️ : My dad is a major influence on a personal level. For books, "Solve for Happy" by Mo Gawdat is great. It combines mathematical equations with happiness concepts.

For business, "100 Million Dollar Offers" by Alex Hormozi is great.

7. What makes a "good question"?

👨🏻‍💻 : Thanks for the recommendation. Last but not least. What do you think makes a “good question”?

👱🏻‍♂️ : That’s a good question. I think a good question cannot be answered on autopilot. It’s like the question you asked me right now, no one has ever asked me before. So it makes me think right now, at the moment.

What about you? What do you think makes a good question?

👨🏻‍💻 : That’s a great definition. A question that cannot be answered “on autopilot.”

For me, my definition of a great question is one that makes you discover your unknown self. Questions that, by coming up with the answer, make you find something about yourself you didn’t know existed.

👱🏻‍♂️ : That’s great.

👨🏻‍💻 : Before we wrap up, one final question: What are your future plans?

👱🏻‍♂️ : Currently, I'm so much focused on the launch on December 27th. That’s all I’m working towards right now.

After that, I aim to offer systems and frameworks for clear thinking and prioritization through storytelling by doing more workshops and getting up on stages and so on.

I plan to write a second book and possibly have a New York Times bestseller by 2026. (👨🏻‍💻 : 🤞)

How about you?

👨🏻‍💻 : Well, In the long term, I want to help as many people as possible get to know themselves with great questions. You and I share the same goal.

So anyways, it was GREAT chatting with you!

👱🏻‍♂️ : I'm sure you'll make it work. It was great talking to you, too.

👨🏻‍💻 : Thank you. It was especially meaningful to me because I've been following your content for months and wanted to connect. Let’s share our journey going forward.

👱🏻‍♂️ : I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for reaching out.

- The end.

Freek and I had more conversations that I haven’t introduced in this letter, and I couldn’t help thinking that Freek’s mindset and approach to his own work was just mesmerizing.

What was particularly interesting to me was that despite our very different cultural backgrounds Freek and I shared almost identical perspectives and a common mission on the matter we’re both working on.

It’s always fun to talk with someone who’s all-in on what they do.

See you next week.